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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1908
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:04:18 -
[1] - Quote
the new battle brawling griffin should be a ton of fun 
unidenify wrote:bigger ship have higher sensor strength, thus reduce chance to jam.
There is counter against ECM, it is called ECCM, Drone* and Auto-targeting missile
*BS should have 5 light drone which will destroy fragile griffin given that it likely to have no tank if it manage to permajam BS somehow. so if your corpmate can't kill griffin with Tempest, it is not because ECM is OP as hell.
in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
fofs go after the nearest target which is almost never going to be an ECM ship. and rarely be a target that makes sense. useful for semi-afk pve sure, pvp maybe not so much.
getting your 5 light drones on said griffin is near impossible when jammed. also since ECM optimal on a griffin is 50km+ that is going to be out of range of many ships, plus if it does start taking hits it can bounce off grid and do drive by attempts at jamming.
as gang size increases organizing jams becomes more difficult and the not jammed ships usually have the ability to volley ECM ships off the field.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1915
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:40:29 -
[2] - Quote
one damp puts a griffin's lock range at 55km (with leadership gang bonuses, don't make me bust out the gang links) which more or less matches its jams optimal range. I'm not going to consider that a valid counter.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1915
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Posted - 2015.10.19 04:52:54 -
[3] - Quote
fit two unbonused damps to go solo roaming to somewhat defend against griffins, brilliant advice!
the bring friends idea is actually a pretty good one. ECM's biggest weakness is more targets. more targets means you have to spread your jams out, and it gets hard to coordinate jams between multiple ecm ships. plus a missed cycle could mean the ecm ship gets blown up as at least one person can target stuff.
I like the idea of solo pvp being something that is accessible, e-war is rather oppressive vs solo targets. ECM seems the most oppressive. TDs you can manage transversal or swap ammos, vs damps close range or try and burn out of range of the damp ship, vs neuts ASB or cap inject, vs ECM start praying. you can keep your tank going but you get hit with 2-3 cycles in a row and you just want to give up. with the other ewars you can try a few things before feeling helpless. heat + links makes for some rather strong ewar, that well usually doesn't result in happy.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1928
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:42:25 -
[4] - Quote
a keres is a much better option and rather useful for the small gang, especially a kitey gang.
bringing a keres or counter griffin doesn't really do much when you are solo pvping. there are many solo situations where the soloer can do amazing things. either fighting out numbered and picking people off, managing reps to tank the incoming damage while killing targets, or using smart piloting to fight a larger target. Then someone quickly reships to a griffin with specific jammers, and the soloer gets dead.
big miker nearly soloed a carrier the other day, then they brought an ECM ship. although in this case that didn't work as miker was in a vargur and you can't jam a bastioned marauder. I say nearly soloed because a few of his corp mates showed up to finish it off.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
1935
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Posted - 2015.10.21 03:47:29 -
[5] - Quote
Dungheap wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
this is the same argument miners used when told to tank their barges against ganking .. they were mocked for complaining about something that has in game counters available ..
you could always tank a barge and maintain a decent yield. most miners were complaining because they fit all cargo expanders had almost no EHP, and could get ganked by a single catalyst. we called it anti-tanking. in this case no one is actively fitting mods that decrease their sensor strength.
and it isn't a counter, it is something that reduces the chance you get jammed. people with 100+ sensor strength can still get jammed by a 1 point ECM drone. Fitting a tank to a barge isn't a counter against getting ganked, but does increase either the number of ganking ships the gankers need, or the quality of the ship used.
so now I should fit an eccm, a sensor booster, a cap injector, a tracking comp, and a prop mod just to counter the stuff my opponents might bring! oh great now I'm out of slots and can't even point/web my targets
yes it is a trade off of not fitting an ECCM. but I still maintain fitting one isn't a very compelling counter.
yet another point about ECM being strongest vs solo players, and very strong against small gangs, and not so strong in massive fleets.
if I had a fantastic idea about how to change ECM so it was "balanced" I'd be over in F&I talking about it.
@ChainsawPlankto
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